Amanda Knox trial...goes on and on

[Babba]

Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) issued a statement following the verdict.

Italian jurors were not sequestered and were allowed to view highly negative news coverage about Ms. Knox. Other flaws in the Italian justice system on display in this case included the harsh treatment of Ms. Knox following her arrest; negligent handling of evidence by investigators; and pending charges of misconduct against one of the prosecutors stemming from another murder trial.

She also says she's been in contact with our ambassador to Italy and with Hillary Clinton. I don't think there is much either can do.

http://cantwell.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=320475

[ThomasIsUnderrated]

I have not been following this trial at all, so forgive me for not knowing any of the details, but there are several issues that I have with the Italian justice system. My biggest beef just happens to be with its jury system. If I understand its system correctly, a jury for serious crimes in Italy is made up of a combination of regular citizens and professional judges. The citizens are picked entirely at random, but with one important restriction. All jurors must be between 30 and 65 years old.

Those who support such a jury claim that there is no bias with the judges, since they don't represent either side, and that the judges can guide the otherwise confused citizen jurors on issues of law. But, with all due respect to the Italians, I think this is very naive. I'm sure it works OK in most cases, but in cases with media coverage like this, one has to wonder just how unbiased such judges actually are. And furthermore, one has to consider the influence that the judges could have on the citizen jurors. An unsure citizen juror, thinking that the more educated and intelligent judge jurors must surely understand all the details, could easily be persuaded to convict.

Just my brief .02.

[Babba]

I have not been following this trial at all, so forgive me for not knowing any of the details, but there are several issues that I have with the Italian justice system. My biggest beef just happens to be with its jury system. If I understand its system correctly, a jury for serious crimes in Italy is made up of a combination of regular citizens and professional judges. The citizens are picked entirely at random, but with one important restriction. All jurors must be between 30 and 65 years old.

Those who support such a jury claim that there is no bias with the judges, since they don't represent either side, and that the judges can guide the otherwise confused citizen jurors on issues of law. But, with all due respect to the Italians, I think this is very naive. I'm sure it works OK in most cases, but in cases with media coverage like this, one has to wonder just how unbiased such judges actually are. And furthermore, one has to consider the influence that the judges could have on the citizen jurors. An unsure citizen juror, thinking that the more educated and intelligent judge jurors must surely understand all the details, could easily be persuaded to convict.

Just my brief .02.

I didn't follow the trial until quite recently myself and I agree with you 100%, Thomas. Our system isn't perfect, but it is light years ahead of the Italians. As you point out, the Italian system would work pretty well in most cases, but it's failure rate would be much higher in high profile cases. We at least attempt to be unbiased by restricting the exposure of juries to media reports.

And your point about judges being embedded in a jury are damn good.

[DrJohn]

It's my understanding that all of the jurors don't have to agree on the verdict either.

[Doodles]

Yes, and how about the other little factor....nobody was ever sequestered. They were all free throughout this lengthy trial (nearly a year long) to go home and read/discuss whatever they wanted with whomever. The character assassination of Amanda and Raffaele (but especially Amanda) has been running rampant throughout Italy and all of Europe since this whole thing began....Nov 1, 2007. Tabloid type media was merciless on Amanda and people ate it all up as gospel truth...that goes for the jurors, as well. In Italy you're guilty until proven innocent....and European press made sure that nobody had any doubts about guilt. Those two were tried and convicted long before their Kangaroo-style trial ever began.

ETA: And that's right DrJohn...they well may have been convicted based on a single juror's guilty vote.

[DrJohn]

Yes, and how about the other little factor....nobody was ever sequestered. They were all free throughout this lengthy trial (nearly a year long) to go home and read/discuss whatever they wanted with whomever. The character assassination of Amanda and Raffaele (but especially Amanda) has been running rampant throughout Italy and all of Europe since this whole thing began....Nov 1, 2007. Tabloid type media was merciless on Amanda and people ate it all up as gospel truth...that goes for the jurors, as well. In Italy you're guilty until proven innocent....and European press made sure that nobody had any doubts about guilt. Those two were tried and convicted long before their Kangaroo-style trial ever began.

ETA: And that's right DrJohn...they well may have been convicted based on a single juror's guilty vote.

Well, sequestration does not always happen here but you would think that in a trial of that scope and magnitude, the judge would have done it.

Did her defense attorney request it?

[Doodles]

Yes, and how about the other little factor....nobody was ever sequestered. They were all free throughout this lengthy trial (nearly a year long) to go home and read/discuss whatever they wanted with whomever. The character assassination of Amanda and Raffaele (but especially Amanda) has been running rampant throughout Italy and all of Europe since this whole thing began....Nov 1, 2007. Tabloid type media was merciless on Amanda and people ate it all up as gospel truth...that goes for the jurors, as well. In Italy you're guilty until proven innocent....and European press made sure that nobody had any doubts about guilt. Those two were tried and convicted long before their Kangaroo-style trial ever began.

ETA: And that's right DrJohn...they well may have been convicted based on a single juror's guilty vote.

Well, sequestration does not always happen here but you would think that in a trial of that scope and magnitude, the judge would have done it.

Did her defense attorney request it?

I don't know. But really, what good would that have done...the damage was already done because they all had been exposed to a year's worth of salacious media nonsense before the trial even began. Some of those jurors flat-out stated during the jury selection process that they already were convinced that the two kids were guilty. Whole different system over there. I do know that the defense lawyers tried to get the trial moved to another town in Italy. Request denied.

ETA: The prosecutor is a scary dude. He has a long history of intimidating and threatening people who disagree with him. I think those jurors were afraid of what he might do personally to them if they did not convict.

[Doodles]

Here's the take on the case from a man who had his own harrowing experience dealing with the nutzo prosecutor.

Crime novelist Doug Preston on Meredith Kercher's murder
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/131443.asp

[Doodles]

As already mentioned, throughout this entire 2 year long imprisonment/murder trial process, the chief prosecutor (Giuliano Mignini) was, himself, under indictment for abuse of office and other criminal charges in relation to another older case/trial. Outrageously, he was allowed to maintain his duties and continue through with the lengthy prosectution and ultimate conviction of Amanda Knox.

Well, he finally got his own trial and he was CONVICTED. GOOD!!!!

Giuliano Mignini, the lead investigator who successfully prosecuted Seattle native Amanda Knox of murder, was convicted Friday in Florence of abuse of office.

Although cleared of the main charge against him, the remaining charges resulted in a suspended sentence of one year and four months.

A judge decided that Mignini abused his office by wiretapping several journalists and police officials.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/414529_knox22.html

[Babba]

As already mentioned, throughout this entire 2 year long imprisonment/murder trial process, the chief prosecutor (Giuliano Mignini) was, himself, under indictment for abuse of office and other criminal charges in relation to another older case/trial. Outrageously, he was allowed to maintain his duties and continue through with the lengthy prosectution and ultimate conviction of Amanda Knox.

Well, he finally got his own trial and he was CONVICTED. GOOD!!!!

Giuliano Mignini, the lead investigator who successfully prosecuted Seattle native Amanda Knox of murder, was convicted Friday in Florence of abuse of office.

Although cleared of the main charge against him, the remaining charges resulted in a suspended sentence of one year and four months.

A judge decided that Mignini abused his office by wiretapping several journalists and police officials.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/414529_knox22.html

This isn't so good.

Despite Friday's conviction, Mignini will be allowed to continue his magisterial duties. If he is not convicted of any other crimes in the next five years, Friday's action will be expunged.

Interesting justice system they have over there.

[Doodles]

I say 'GOOD' because this could very well help Amanda (and Raffaele) in their appeals.

[Babba]

I say 'GOOD' because this could very well help Amanda (and Raffaele) in their appeals.

I hope so.